Taking on the e-Sports industry with Bernard Chong

ProjektItachi (00:01.156)
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another week of the GZ Chop Shop podcast. I am your host, Project Itachi. Welcome to the first episode of 2024. If you are new, thank you for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and follow. And if you're a returning listener, thank you so much for joining us on another adventure through this year. Now, we have a very special episode lined up for you because today we have a very special guest with us.

He is an investor, a serial entrepreneur with portfolios ranging from brick and mortar, tech startups, retail, real estate, entertainment, food and beverage, you name it, he's probably involved in it. He is also the founder of the eSports Mobile Legends Bang World Series Championship team, AP Bren. Welcome Mr. Bernard Chong. We're so happy to have you on this episode. It's very exciting.

Bernard Chong (01:00.686)
Hello Greg, hi. Thank you for having me.

ProjektItachi (01:03.232)
Absolutely, absolutely. Now, being that you are, I want to say, heavily involved in e-sports, one of the first questions that I want to ask is, what brought you into e-sports, especially with the boom that it's been going through in the last few years, especially post-COVID, e-sports has taken off, there's a lot of new people trying to get into the e-sports industry.

But you've been involved in it for a while. What brought you into, was it an investor viewpoint or do you actually have some connection to the video game industry personally?

Bernard Chong (01:45.138)
It began when I feel like there's a community following the eSports. So it was in DOTA before when I feel like it could be a mainstream competition. And from there, I thought of, I implanted to have my own team representing such eSports and then I started the Brand eSports, which was renamed now to AP Brand.

And so that's how it started. I feel like people who enjoy competing and there's a community fan base behind it, then it becomes mainstream. So I feel like helping the people start an e-sports and teach them how to, as a team, how to battle, how to win is a good way of educating also and helping children.

or the players.

ProjektItachi (02:47.148)
Okay, now I noticed you mentioned education, and I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, I've been saying for a while that video games can also be used as an educational tool. You know, they don't always have to be what people feel is this brain dead, pointless activity. And...

You just mentioned using it as an educational tool. Can you elaborate a little bit more on how you see them as an educational tool in some cases?

Bernard Chong (03:19.518)
Well, in competition and of course in battling or surviving a battle, you still have to have a strategy, you still have to have teamwork. So it's in line with real life also. In real life, you can't, I mean you can survive alone but probably if you want to do big things, you have a team and you know how to talk to your teammates, you know how to handle pressure. So

in a way reflecting to real life situation. Esports can be a training ground for young kids as they learn how to battle and how to behave and how to think and how to react on certain circumstance.

ProjektItachi (04:09.504)
I like that. Definitely being a team cohesive experiences is a very important thing. And a lot of people go, especially when they're trying to start businesses and when they're trying to do big things, they have this mentality that, hey, you know what, I can truck it alone. I can do it all myself. You know, me, me. But even then you still need help. You know, you need that one person that takes that risk on you, you know, that one person invests in you.

Bernard Chong (04:39.334)
Even if you're very, very good at what you do, you're still not that good to do two-person work, three-person work, or a team's work.

ProjektItachi (04:50.852)
Gotcha, gotcha. No, I like that. I like that. So we have seen esports athletes. We see the people, the teams, everyone knows the teams, everyone knows their favorite players, but no one actually knows what happens behind the scenes. You know, what it looks like from your standpoint as the founder of esports, because without someone like you, those favorite players wouldn't exist.

You know, those teams wouldn't exist. So what is it like behind the scenes as an esports founder?

Bernard Chong (05:25.938)
Well, it depends on what organization some esports player experience. But in my organization, behind the scene, we take care of all the back end necessarily. So they wouldn't, the player will just have to figure out how they play and perform. We make sure that we take care of their, you know, their salary, they pay, they payroll, any legal stuff, any, any stuff that

can get their time, can get their focus on playing well, we take care of it. So those are behind the scenes. Aside from we have to make sure that they're resting, make sure they're training also, and make sure we have a discussion, boardroom discussion also, what to do. That's in a tactical way. So we make sure that they're focused on performing only. And behind the scene, we take care of

whatever you can think of that can be their problem or can get their attention. We make sure as much as possible, we look into it and make sure it's taken care of. In our organization, the brand Esports or AP brand, we do those.

ProjektItachi (06:46.528)
Now you mentioned anything that could take their attention. As compared to regular sports, what are some issues that e-sports athletes could run into that you guys would have to go, OK, we need to look into this, and something that's probably common among e-sports athletes?

Bernard Chong (07:09.674)
Well, most of our athletes are not well off, and they're young, and they're like, not yet, not yet, not yet stable in life. So we make sure they got place to stay, they got place to sleep, they got food, stuff like that. And of course, the legality, when they get financial salary, they know,

which bank to put it, how to invest it, we teach them in some way or we guide them.

ProjektItachi (07:48.361)
Okay, so.

Bernard Chong (07:49.782)
Instead of figuring them out, instead of they figuring out, we just hand them to, we just say, oh, this is the things that you do. You can put your money here, and this is the payroll, this is the taxes, this is the account, this is all set up, and you will sleep here, this is your time. So they could just focus on just training and performing. If they become official athlete.

ProjektItachi (08:13.344)
If they become an official athlete, got it. And how does one reach that official athlete status? Like how do you, what is your scouting process for your athletes?

Bernard Chong (08:22.598)
Oh, there are tryouts. There are so many applicants. So we have competition, we have tryouts also. And interviews, we ask how they are as a player, and then we check. And then we decide to give them a chance. We send them to the team, often as reserve first, and see how they perform. We also talk to their teammates, potential teammates, if they're a good fit or not.

ProjektItachi (08:53.24)
Cause this comes back to the cohesiveness you were talking about before. And you know, you want to make sure that everyone can have each other's back and that they can work well together. And you know.

Bernard Chong (09:01.286)
Yes, actually, if I know, the greatest team are not really composed of the best players, but most cohesive team. I mean, even in sports, you'll see superstar team, but not because you're composed of all superstars, doesn't mean you will perform and excel as a champion.

So most champion team, they've got to be a very cohesive team.

ProjektItachi (09:37.572)
So in the, I want to say like an off the wall case of two well performing teammates having sudden issues on the team that causes the cohesiveness to fall apart. How do you resolve that if they're both, you know, top performing players?

Bernard Chong (09:57.746)
Well, sometimes you know how to fix it if they're mature enough. Through our experience, we've been doing this for five years. But sometimes there's some dogs, like top players who won't work with each other. And then you just have to talk to them and ask them to face it. If like, if they can learn how to...

play together, that's good. If they can't, then whoever stays and one person normally goes. Because if they both stay, then you can't have a successful team because the cohesiveness is not there.

ProjektItachi (10:44.164)
So being an investor, what are some of the risks that you have to look out for in investing in esports?

Bernard Chong (10:55.102)
Well, I don't see risk as risk if you know what you're doing. It's more like you gotta be patient still with time. Because you're teaching. So what we're doing is because we're happy teaching the individual, the group, our players. So as we teach them, we're happy that we're doing what's our purpose.

What our purpose why we started an esports team to begin with and then we're enjoying the community so We love what we do. So that's the happiness. It's not we don't see really the risk Rises maybe if You don't have guidelines and then you just pick them up and then you just allow them but We have guidelines too. So I don't see any risk

We're not also expecting any, like you have to be a champion or you have to win a championship when you join us. We are just more about teaching the kids, having them to experience, to be a player and having them grow as a person. So that's what we do. So I can't find much risk, at least from my end, in my point of view.

ProjektItachi (12:24.236)
No, I like that. And the fact that you mentioned being patient and time for growth, I know that as time goes on, a lot of, you know, as the generations change, patience seems to be something that is sadly fading. A lot of people are expecting instantaneous returns, they're expecting, you know, as soon as they dive in for something to turn around. As someone who's been in, you know, businesses for as long as you have,

What is the, what would you say is the average timeframe you would tell someone stepping into any kind of business to at least give it, you know, in terms of patience?

Bernard Chong (13:05.758)
Well, to learn it, everything's easy to learn as you do it, you progress, but to be very good at expert, there's a writing that it's like 10,000 hours. So as long as you do 10,000 hours, you'll be very, very good at what you do. Then again, of course, there are people who learn fast, who excel fast, but normally it's the number of hours you practice, you train. So your muscle memory, you get accustomed to

the situation, the circumstance. So it's the time you spend how to master your craft and patience is equivalent to long time. So there.

ProjektItachi (13:52.812)
No, I like that. You know, just take the time. Do it over, rinse and repeat, learn, expand a little bit as you go and then, you know, broaden your horizons. But but basically keep an open mind. Don't don't get so discouraged if it doesn't happen right away.

Bernard Chong (14:09.862)
When you're dedicated to learn something, eventually you will figure out the small tweaks, the small changes, or the small let's say wisdom or strategy as you go by, as you go on. So that's just how is it in life with everything in game, in business, even in your craft. You do your craft. After a while you say I can improve this and after

After improving it after a while, then you will think of another improvement better than before. So the longer you're doing what you do, everyone, the longer they're doing what they do, they improve.

ProjektItachi (14:55.468)
All right. So another question I have is, if I'm correct, you are now stationed in LA, correct? So what are your plans now that you're in LA? Are you expanding into the e-sports ecosystem over here? What are you going to be currently working on?

Bernard Chong (15:03.287)
Yes.

Bernard Chong (15:20.31)
My main hat is an angel investor. So I'm planning to invest slowly in US territory. What we opened also a education foundation. Hopefully I could help people how to educate them in my own means, in my own way. And I'm also trying to meet people, network people from here.

and see how can I help them if they have questions such as business plan, questions about HR management, things that I know maybe I can share also to people who are curious. And I'm also looking for opportunities also to put money on certain businesses if they pass my filters.

ProjektItachi (16:15.204)
filters. Now, what are some of those filters that you have in place before you agree to invest in someone's business idea?

Bernard Chong (16:26.326)
Well, I invest normally with people and their character. So my filters will be, I would test them. I would test and see how they react to certain situation and circumstance. Sometimes I would ask stupid questions or I will deliberately test their patients and see how they react. But often, often I would say yes. And as I go,

as the real stuff goes by because business is tough and being a leader is tough, then that's where I will see the real character, the real flavor, if they're up to it or not. But normally, people I do business with, they are still with me or they still talk with me. So I think I have a good success rate on people on whom I'm dealing with.

ProjektItachi (17:26.124)
Now I know you've expanded into, I want to say, mobile gaming a little bit. What drives you into the mobile market? Because for those who don't know, Mobile Legends is a mobile based game that is actually huge. I don't think a lot of people here in America were aware of how big that game is. And now you're working in a gaming company that has a

focus in mobile gaming as well. What do you think the drive is for mobile gaming that makes it so successful?

Bernard Chong (18:06.774)
So I just worked on platform, Greg, and I'm working on a social media platform that has possible reach of any person who has internet. Now, particular to mobile games, I'm also inclined to check and see other games and see their strategy, the user experience, the user interface experience and everything, see what I learned from them.

and apply it to my mobile platforms also. And I see that on a platform-based game, or on a platform-based business, you have more reach. So you could, let's say, help more people or teach more people. You could influence more people by being in a platform-based business or platform-based game.

course there has to be social aspect so you talk to them you talk to different people and there has to be a gamification also so they enjoy. On things that I spearhead the project but on the mobile side game where you asked me why I particularly like it is because you reach certain territories that's not within your physical limits as long as there's internet you reach the people there you talk to them

you befriend them and that's a really good, let's say shortcut, superpower or advantage to expand your knowledge, expand your know-how to meet people who's not in your vicinity.

ProjektItachi (19:53.62)
OK, so pretty much casting a really wide net, as big as you can to reach as many people as possible. Do you see yourself doing another AP Bren team here?

Bernard Chong (20:02.53)
Yes.

Bernard Chong (20:10.722)
Uh, maybe, maybe in the future, for now, it's, I try to stay in my lane and I have a team already and it's successful. So I have, I see no sense of making another team yet. So right now it's, it is just like as is for now. I mean, I'm not closing any doors, but I'm not planning also.

I just, let's see.

ProjektItachi (20:42.852)
So this question is more about your personal feeling, being that I know you have your ear to the ground on industry moves and everything. How do you feel these acquisitions between gaming companies, Microsoft acquiring Activision Blizzard, Sony trying to keep up acquiring things like Bungie, how do you feel that will affect the market or e-sports in the future?

if everything starts falling under one giant umbrella. Does that concern you in any way as an investor? Or do you see it as a good thing?

Bernard Chong (21:20.466)
I feel like it's natural for a successful smaller company to be acquired by bigger company. That's the natural course of the business history.

Bernard Chong (21:35.638)
this acquire acquisition, if they don't meddle, they just acquire it and they don't meddle. They let them, like the founding team, they let them run things. I think this is all right and this is good. But acquiring certain businesses and you meddle with the founder or you meddle with the management to tweak on a certain stuff, then maybe this will affect the so-called

the so-called company. But community-wise, e-sports-wise, user-based-wise, following-wise, in general, I think we're in good track. We will grow. And it is just like that. It's the next thing because the population is increasing. Everybody can be playing basketball. Everybody can be playing football and soccer or tennis. Somebody will have to play.

you know, shooting game, somebody have to play five on five games, somebody have to play a Tekken game, a Street Fighter game, NBA 2K, you know, Madden game. So we will have a niche of communities and following base. That's a natural progression of our population because our population is growing and technology is also evolving. So that's what's happening.

ProjektItachi (23:02.072)
That I agree to that, you know, acquisitions would be fine as long as they because they acquired that company because they like what they were doing. They saw the success. They saw the potential. So it makes no sense to change the working formula. You know, if it's not broke, don't fix it. I guess it's also concerning because if everything comes under one umbrella, then you don't have a lot of diversity on the field anymore.

Bernard Chong (23:11.469)
Yes.

Bernard Chong (23:19.308)
Yes.

Bernard Chong (23:29.406)
Yes, yes, but we will always have diversity. That's what I'm saying.

ProjektItachi (23:36.716)
Okay. Um, so moving on to some of the things for you personally, uh, cause I, I'm sure, you know, the listeners, they probably think, oh, you know, someone like you, they're always focused on business. They're always focused on investments, but word has it that you actually are a Batman fan.

Bernard Chong (23:56.042)
Yeah, I'm a comics fan, but I like Batman, I like Superman, I like Spider-Man, Iron Man. This, especially Spider-Man, it feels like you're, he's part of a normal human being who has problems also, and who has to take care of some stuff. I like Batman also because he has to use his intellect, his observation skills to solve stuff.

So generally, reading comics and reading in general helps me also see other windows and other, and see, wait.

Bernard Chong (24:40.006)
helps me see other life and events and the writer's point of view, and you learn from them. Sometimes if you're just focused on business, you're not seeing other stuff, but if you're reading across the board, Star Wars, you know, DC, Marvel, these writers, creators, they imagine some stuff that are unique to the reader. And once you give time to them,

You also open your imagination to what they imagine, what the writer's imagination is. And it's good thing because it allows you to see what our world, the universe really is. So sometimes you have to read, you know, Star Trek stuff. Just read in general and explore in general. I mean, as a young people, as a young person, you say you have to explore to learn. But we forget that as we grow older, we still have to explore also ourselves.

not because I'm 40 plus and somebody's 30 plus or somebody's 50 plus, doesn't mean they can't explore anymore, which is there's so much things to explore, there's so much things to learn. So it's very vital for someone to be doing what he's doing and to be exploring also at times. So the mind is always open for opportunities or open for improvements or other ideas.

ProjektItachi (26:06.284)
Now from an educational standpoint and educating yourself, what are some things that you like to read that you would recommend to others?

Bernard Chong (26:18.422)
Me, I read science stuff, especially discovery stuff. Now, but business books, psychology books, of course, those are basic. How to win friends, influence people, those are relationship books. Any kinds of books that are good at their own titles are good at what they're teaching.

For example, if it's a management book, Four Disciplines of Execution, the Four Disciplines of Execution is a good management book. Or if you want about how you save money and how you see money, so the rich dad, poor dad, and the richest man in Babylon. So there are certain genera books that has been spoken of, and you just have to read them too so you learn what other people know.

ProjektItachi (27:18.84)
Yeah, I know that makes sense because if you want to be your version of that person, you got to you got to figure out where they start and begin your journey.

Bernard Chong (27:27.902)
Yeah, and you gotta see how they look at things. So maybe you can start to look at things, how they look at things also.

ProjektItachi (27:38.56)
Okay, no, that's good. That's actually insightful for, you know, for myself as well, because, you know, like you said, in this industry of podcasting, it's having to look at other podcasters, successful podcasters, and figuring out, you know, okay, what was their starting point? How did they look at things? Where did they begin?

Bernard Chong (28:01.158)
In business, there's this called flywheel. So you got to know your flywheel. So for example, if you're a podcaster and you want to have many, you have to reach, you have to reach more reach, right?

So you have to know your flywheel and keep doing your flywheel. So in our example of our family business, World Balance, which is the local shoe brand in Philippines, we're the number one local shoe brand there in Manila. So our flywheel there was collaboration. So World Balance collaborated with Disney, World Balance collaborated with Star Wars. So the fan base of World Balance and the fan base of Disney, they collab. And every time we collab,

we see that our business sales increase and that the traction also increase and the volume of community increase also. So at least we now know in our shoe brand, collaboration was our flywheel. Of course, in your podcast, you should see other podcasters and you just see how they grow and see what their flywheel is. And maybe collaboration can be your flywheel too.

ProjektItachi (29:15.36)
And I just learned the term flywheel from you right now. And I'm sure some listeners just learned that as well. Collaboration is definitely a big one now. That one floats around in the social ecosystem quite a lot. They say, do reach out. Just connect.

Bernard Chong (29:31.786)
Yeah. Flywheel is something that is what when you do it, your business becomes bigger. So that that's the flywheel.

ProjektItachi (29:45.656)
So you also mentioned an organization, you've started the Brent Seed Foundation. Would you like to briefly go into that a little bit more?

Bernard Chong (29:57.65)
I feel like I started the foundation to help people in my way to educate because I feel like education is the best way to change or help certain individual or people when they learn rather than giving them resource or giving them fish so they could feed themselves. It's teaching them how to fish. But in a real sense is helping.

ProjektItachi (30:21.412)
How the fish, yep.

Bernard Chong (30:26.294)
them to be educated, they might be able to make themselves a living. But of course, it's not easy, so you've got to be patient with people learning to be educated. Awesome.

ProjektItachi (30:43.818)
I love it. We keep coming back to that word patience. That is something that cannot be said enough.

Bernard Chong (30:49.594)
Actually, yes, as much as you don't want to deal with it, it's there. And even if you don't want to practice it, it's going to be there. And it's everywhere. Like when you're a parent being patient to your kids, when your kids being patient to your craft, when you're an NBA player, you were patient before you become a star. When you're starting, patience is always there.

ProjektItachi (31:20.556)
Well, I know you're a very, very busy man, and I don't want to take too much more of your time. The last thing I would like to talk to you about briefly is, as you're the co-owner of Synergy 88 Studios, can you tell us a little bit about Synergy 88?

Bernard Chong (31:34.592)
Yes.

Bernard Chong (31:38.67)
So we were producing digital assets for Microsoft. It's the first animation studio in Philippines that has been certified by Microsoft. So we make work digitally for First World Country. So there, we make our own animation in Philippines to be as a work for First World Country, yeah.

That's Synergy 88 Studio.

ProjektItachi (32:10.62)
That is amazing. And you are behind a lot of big things happening over there. Like I said, you have the championship team, you have Synergy 88 Studios. I believe you just opened up a coffee business. You have a lot of hats you're wearing.

Bernard Chong (32:26.842)
I think I've been blessed and thank you, but I feel like I could still do more. I wanna, I always compare to my old version of myself and I feel like I still got a long way to go.

ProjektItachi (32:43.536)
Well, Mr. Chong, thank you so much for spending some of your time with us on today's episode. Hopefully we can have you in the future because you have so much to offer. I would really like to deep dive into this in the future. I am on the East Coast in Pennsylvania.

Bernard Chong (32:57.522)
Thank you, Greg. I'm just in LA. Where are you, Baze?

Bernard Chong (33:04.802)
Alright, if you visit LA, just you know, ask Crystal. We could, you know, you could hang out and we can talk.

ProjektItachi (33:14.488)
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning in, hanging out with us on the GZ Chop Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to click that subscribe button and we will catch all you wonderful people in the next episode. Later.

Bernard Chong (33:30.73)
All right.